Revving Up Mobility Innovation

Keith Zakheim 0:02

Welcome to the Age of Adoption podcast. I am your host, Keith Zakheim. Today, as we do with every podcast, we're going to ask our guests one question and one question only. What is your age of climate adoption? Stories A little bit about the Age of Adoption. We live in an era where all corporations and enterprises must rapidly adopt climate and sustainability solutions regardless of industry. Companies must transform their businesses to be become more climate

Keith Zakheim 0:32

sensitive and sustainable. My day job is CEO of the marketing and public relations firm Antenna Group. And from that vantage point, I've experienced this transition from an age of innovation, an era in which technologists, entrepreneurs and investors focused on innovating climate and sustainable solutions, to this age of adoption which characterizes the world today. So if you accept the age of Adoption hypothesis, then there's really only

Keith Zakheim 1:02

one salient question to be asked. What is your Age of adoption story?

Keith Zakheim 1:13

If Detroit is the Motor City, then the State of Michigan is the belle of the mobility ball. On today's Age of Adoption podcast, I have the distinct privilege of hosting Justine Johnson, Chief Mobility Officer for the State of Michigan. Justine describes mobility industry more expansively than I would have thought. Spoiler alert. She references underwater drones and more importantly addresses the critical issues of transportation, accessibility, first and last mile, and other

Keith Zakheim 1:42

innovations that characterize the age of adoption for mobility. Back with Justine and the time it takes a Tesla to go from zero to 60. Justine, welcome to the Age of Adoption podcast.

Justine Johnson 1:56

Thank you so much for having me. Great to be here, Justine.

Keith Zakheim 2:00

So as a Chief Mobility officer, the state of Michigan and mobility in Michigan and Detroit, that is the mobility capital of North America, certainly. So being the Chief Mobility Officer is a position that I would assume most people who are in the mobility space are going to be fascinated by, buy, and I'm sure would aspire to have a professional position of that import and that influence. So let's start the podcast with you sharing with our listeners how you got here.

Justine Johnson 2:29

Yeah, this is such a fantastic question. I always love talking about my journey with mobility and I say that for me it started at a very young age and little did I know that my life would have led me into a career within mobility and transportation. But it literally started with me riding the bus as a child, public transportation, and being able to realize what it feels like to be transit dependent and what it means to really

Justine Johnson 2:58

have to get your tokens on the weekends so you can prepare for your trips for the week ahead. I understood what it meant like to cross the street as a very young child in a major boulevard in Los Angeles, California. Crossing that by yourself is like crossing a highway and having to be very aware of, of my surroundings.

Keith Zakheim 3:16

It's like the 1980s video game Frogger.

Justine Johnson 3:19

Oh yeah, you're just like, I just, I'm small, I need to be seen. The cars are moving fast, they need to see me. I just got to get from one end to the other. So I learned very early, probably earlier than most children probably should have learned to cross major boulevards. I figured it out with the help of my mom at a very young age.

Keith Zakheim 3:35

You look to be a lot younger than me, but parents in the 1980s, I mean when I was five years old, they seemed to have no problems. You know, Keith, go walk for two miles to a friend's. It was. Now we have trackers on our kids phones and if we don't hear from them for 30 seconds we're all nervous. My parents didn't seem to have those fears anyway, that's just a psychological aside.

Justine Johnson 3:54

I think too it was out of necessity, right? And I think for exactly thinking about my mom it was like, hey, I got to get to work. And so you have to get to school or you have to get to your swim lessons. And the only way that's going to happen is if you get off, if I teach you how to get on the bus and I teach you where to get off and I teach you how to walk to where you need to go and having the trust that all of those things will happen and, and yes, we just weren't all connected to phones and airtags and all those things. You know, you'd be let. I just remember payphones were a thing, right?

Justine Johnson 4:24

That was my, my interaction of rapid communication was finding the closest payphone. But anyways, back to kind of my journey here. After, you know, leaving grad school at the University of Southern California, I then applied for a fellowship program in New York City called the New York City Urban Fellows Program. And it's been around for a, probably now like 60, 70 years this program's been around which is really bringing recent college graduates to New York City to work in government. And I had the pleasure of working at city planning in New York City. And that

Justine Johnson 4:54

was kind of my first exposure of working on a long range plan. And at the time it was called Vision 2020. And I was thinking it's too long, 2020 is going to be years away. Like it was just, you know, I couldn't even conceptualize what 2020 would look like. But we were thinking about the waterfront in New York City and most people don't think about New York City as being this maritime city, but it really was my first introduction of thinking about the future and also looking at the existing assets and understanding where the gaps were. So I worked on that plan. After that, went

Justine Johnson 5:23

to work at the Taxi and Limousine Commission in New York City. And I thought that was going to be an easy job until, you know, we had some TNC show up and that's Uber and Lyft, transportation network companies. At the time, the New York City Taxi Limousine Commission was such a highly recognized, regulated industry that there was no way that technology was going to show up at our door and we were not going to be prepared. But it did and it shook the industry up rapidly. And so that kind of gave me a quick understanding of what happens when regulation and

Justine Johnson 5:53

innovation come to a heads, right? And you literally had this pissing match. And unfortunately the regulators took a heavy beating, right? And so just not being prepared for what this means and how consumers were going to adapt to this rapid change of using your phone now is your ability to hail a car, right? That, that was nowhere written in a rule at the time. And so watching, you know, our legal teams at the time scramble to think about rules around what an electronic hail would look like when that

Justine Johnson 6:23

was never a concept. And so you see this evolution of innovation showing up and how users are demanding that this is what I want, right? I want to move this way. I want, I don't want to stand outside in the cold. I don't want to have someone argue with me about where my location is or if I have a disability. I just want the car to show up and I get in and there's no issues. So working at the Taxi Limousine Commission definitely exposed me to, again, this interaction between regulation and innovation. After that, I went to work at the New York City Economic Development Corporation on a project called

Justine Johnson 6:53

NYC Ferry, brand new commuter ferry system that was started under the de Blasio administration. 2017 we launched the first three routes really connecting New York City's waterfront communities via a ferry landing. And so you think about, you know, most people think about trains in New York City, but most people are not thinking about ferries. And in other places, the waterfront is typically a prime and pristine real estate asset. In New York City, that was not actually the case. That's really industrial. That's kind of,

Justine Johnson 7:23

you know, where the buses and the trains don't really stop as far into the community. So most people are walking a heavy distance. And so having access to a ferry system was really important. So I went from Taxis to ferries went to Ford Motor Co. And at the time, Ford had a team called Ford Smart Mobility and then jumped into all things around micromobility. So they had a product spin. Scooter. You're learning about micro transit and autonomous vehicles and electric vehicles and literally being a city whisperer in many ways of

Justine Johnson 7:53

talking to cities about the role of micromobility and how scooters were showing up as part of their transportation network and ecosystem in many ways. So, you know, working at some time at Ford, I taught a class at the University of Southern California on the future of mobility. And so one of the fun things, you have those full circle moments where, where you start your conversations about Michigan and you don't realize that's where you're going to be living and that's where you're going to call home next. But really that was kind of my process of getting there. So it's been a full

Justine Johnson 8:22

journey and excited to be in the state of Michigan. You know, I think about just the heritage and the history of the state of innovators and makers and people who have literally changed the face of the world in terms of how we move. And it's so important to be a part of this journey at this particular juncture because I think we're right. We're at this kind of innovative timeline right now where we're doing the same thing where we had 120 years ago where we saw kind of this

Justine Johnson 8:52

widespread production of the Model T and what that meant and seeing roads being built and what that meant for the future of transportation.

Keith Zakheim 9:00

Yeah, those of us who kind of have lived through, I guess, the full life cycle or certainly the beginning, the gestation period of ride shares. And you live there at the Taxi and Limousine Commission in New York. And I remember hearing a statistic, and I'm going to get the numbers wrong, but I think the point will be made. In the city of San Francisco, the year before Sidecar and Lyft and Uber were introduced into the marketplace, it was something like, let's just say taxis and limousines did $100 million of revenue. Okay.

Keith Zakheim 9:30

By year two of ride shares, the market share in terms of $100 million, I should say that taxis and limousines were doing that was down to 60 million, but the market was up to $250 million. So the amount of capacity in that market, the amount of demand far, far exceeded what the taxi and limousine services industry could possibly do. Plus, clearly the quality was so bad because it cannibalized their business as well. So

Keith Zakheim 10:00

you're right. I mean, the market needed something different and consumers made that clear. And hopefully that also made taxis and limousines somewhat better. Although I'm not sure if it has or what. I haven't taken one in a long time. It's always Uber and Lyft.

Justine Johnson 10:14

Give it a try, Give it a try. You might see something very different.

Keith Zakheim 10:17

And I guess the first point you made, or something that also resonated with me is that when we, I think people think of mobility, think of, all right, electric vehicles and autonomous vehicles, but it's so much more than that. Accessibility to public transportation and all the technologies that can facilitate that last mile transportation. Talking about micromobility and those issues, which again, on the accessibility side, for areas of cities or rural environments where public transportation doesn't service, you know, the full commute between home and work. So that there's so many interesting and

Keith Zakheim 10:47

important facets to the mobility revolution that I'm sure, and I know you're working on in Michigan. So from there we've delayed long enough. Justine, now you're getting the question. Are you ready?

Justine Johnson 10:58

I'm ready.

Keith Zakheim 10:58

What is your age of adoption story?

Justine Johnson 11:03

That's such a fantastic question. And it's fantastic because I think there have been many cycles of my age of adoption. And I say that as someone who quickly realized that for me, I do drive an electric vehicle, so I will put that out there, but quickly realized that I wanted to a understand that, you know, again, our climate has been experiencing a lot of strain and

Justine Johnson 11:33

what contribution will I make as an individual? You know, I focus on myself as the individual and how does that support the collective good? And so when I think about my age of adoption, I think it's a little bit of all of those things. I think about the individual choices that I have made for the betterment of humanity or for the betterment of society. Society. And so I'd say that that's probably like one piece of it, but I'd say the other piece of it is thinking about how other form factors show up in this dialogue around mobility. And I

Justine Johnson 12:03

kind of hinted to that in the very beginning. The role of micromobility and connecting me to that first and last mile. And do I need to drive under with trips that are under three miles? Does that actually help the environment? Does that. When you think about parking, do I need to access the curb in that same way? Do I need to hold. Hold space in that way? And so just kind of being more thoughtful about those choices really did become a big part of my own individual Story about mobility, but how I

Justine Johnson 12:33

adopted and really adapted to these different form factors. Same thing for aviation. Right. And so we think about the traditional aviation industry, where most people think of airports and airplanes and getting us to where we need to go. But taking this to another level. Right. How might the role of drones and really thinking about, you know, I mentioned before that I'm from Los Angeles, California, and unfortunately, you know, we're seeing lots of information across the news about the wildfires that are happening. But how might we start to

Justine Johnson 13:02

adopt technologies like drones for resiliency planning? How might we start to save lives in a very different way? How might this technology really help us to. To really be thoughtful, pragmatic, but also very quick in response? Right. And I think this is what we need in terms this rapid response. When I think about this age of adoption, it is really thinking about how technology can be used to solve human problems, natural problems, and how quickly it can do that, and how quickly we can learn to

Justine Johnson 13:32

adapt to this type of technology. So I think it's a part of all of those pieces. Same thing for maritime. What's the role of ferry can play, what's the role of how we can have underwater drones to do inspections? How do we start to see all of these parts and pieces connected to really make sure that we can implement and develop a future world, that we're not living through our same mistakes over and over again, but we're actually using the innovation and technology to help us to be

Justine Johnson 14:02

smarter and also to help us to, you know, manage all of the issues that are happening in our built environment, whether those are natural changes or natural weather events, all the way to unfortunate, catastrophic, or intentional type of actions that are taking place in real time. So I think it's all of those things that have inspired me as part of my age of adoption and have made me very thoughtful about some of the decisions that I make. But also the decisions that we make within the

Justine Johnson 14:32

state of Michigan and how we are continuing to think about the future of the automobile. We think about how that connects to the everyday user. We think about the road. Does a road need to truly be just a traditional road anymore? Can this be a smart road that allows us to deploy connected vehicle technology or allow. Allows us to charge while someone's driving? All of this is supporting what the age of adoption in places like Michigan will look like in the future.

Keith Zakheim 14:59

Yeah. And I'm going to ask you one question just specifically around some of the recent initiatives that your. That your department has been undertaking. One of them specifically about Mach H2.

Justine Johnson 15:10

Yeah.

Keith Zakheim 15:10

And I guess the Midwest alliance for Clean Hydrogen, that's a state backed hub to advance the next phase, I guess, of hydrogen development and hydrogen trucks and all that kind of stuff. And hydrogen's fascinating, fascinating topic because I think most people would agree that if green hydrogen itself, you know, not the hydrogen that use natural gas, but the green hydrogen, if that becomes scalable and affordable, that could be an incredible component of solving for clean transportation. But I'm curious in terms of from where you sit in

Keith Zakheim 15:40

your perspective, where are we today with that and where are we going?

Justine Johnson 15:44

So Michigan was lucky to receive or slated to receive $110 million as part of the, or, excuse me, $100 million of the mock H2 award. And one of the important things about this is it is a alliance of Midwest states who are thinking about the production, storage and distribution of hydrogen to support, you know, all things clean energy within the state and neighboring states as well. I think one of the opportunity areas, especially when we think about medium and heavy duty

Justine Johnson 16:14

trucks, this is such an important aspect or alternative for making sure that those trucks are able to be refueled in a very quick manner. And also thinking about how we can continue to expand our definition of clean energy by providing more alternatives. And that could be hydrogen, that could be electrification, that could be some non rare earth mineral that someone's studying right now to think about how we move in the future with zero emissions. I think that's something that's really important.

Justine Johnson 16:43

Another thing just kind of want to call out as it relates to the hydrogen conversation. We were very lucky to be awardee as a part of the Toyota Mobility Foundation Sustainable Cities Challenge. City of Detroit received $3 million. And then the Office of Future Mobility and Electrification we also put in money to that award as well. And we are looking at alternatives to literally move goods and decarbonize different freight paths going from farms to Eastern Market,

Justine Johnson 17:13

which is one of the largest outdoor urban food markets in the country. And so that's a very important conversation. What might the infrastructure look like to hydrogen Refueling is an active conversation that we have. So we do have some companies that are going through the final selection process. But hydrogen is a very important conversation here and really expanding again the alternatives and the options. So I think we're excited to see this.

Justine Johnson 17:43

We have a project called Truck Stop of the Future that's focusing on electrification for medium and heavy duty fleets. But we're also having that same conversation around hydrogen. What is the role of hydrogen in some of these locations as well to provide this hydrogen truck stop hub where truckers can use this space as well. So as we continue to see different types of technologies develop over time, we're going to be leaning into this fund, leaning into our relationships with other states, but also

Justine Johnson 18:13

tapping into the industry to make sure that we can think about manufacturing these types of vehicles in the state of Michigan, but also thinking about the the full value chain, the storage systems, the safety systems, all of the parts and pieces that are going to be important to storing and as well distributing hydrogen to other states across the United States. So we're looking at all of it.

Keith Zakheim 18:35

Fantastic. Well Justine, I thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are. I really enjoyed our conversation and look forward to staying in touch.

Justine Johnson 18:43

Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.

Keith Zakheim 18:46

The Age of Adoption podcast is where CEOs, investors, entrepreneurs and policymakers share their climate and sustainability business transformation stories. You can find Age of Adoption Podcast episodes on your favorite podcast apps including itunes and Spotify. The Age of Adoption Podcast is brought to you by Antenna Group. If you have a great Age of Adoption story and want to share it with the world, then Antenna Group is the integrated marketing and public relations

Keith Zakheim 19:16

agency for you. We partner with companies big and small, from growth stage to Fortune 100, to tell their climate and sustainability stories to key audiences and stakeholders, helping companies build brands and sales funnels. Antenna group is the OG of climate and sustainability PR, having worked in the space since 2005. If you're interested in learning more more about Antenna Group, please visit our website at www.antennagroup.com. shoot us an email at antennagroup.com or ping us on LinkedIn.